WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:04.200 John Adams remarked that there are two ways to insulate a nation. One is with 00:04.200 --> 00:10.200 the sword, the other is with debt. Americans are surely awash in debt. My 00:10.200 --> 00:15.360 guest Ellen Brown authored the runaway bestseller Web of Debt. Her book 00:15.360 --> 00:21.600 challenges widely held beliefs about our economy and our freedom. In essence a 00:21.600 --> 00:27.600 handful of keen bankers control it all. We explore how private parties, not our 00:27.600 --> 00:34.080 government, control America's money supply. Banking in America has become a cruel 00:34.080 --> 00:38.920 hoax acting as a giant betting machine. Still there is a path to prosperity and 00:38.920 --> 00:44.560 freedom argues Miss Brown. It is my pleasure to welcome Web of Debt author 00:44.560 --> 00:51.880 Miss Ellen Brown to Moral Politics. Welcome Ellen. Thank you. Now you have in the title of 00:51.880 --> 00:57.440 your book Web. What were you conveying by that? Are there spiders in an 00:57.440 --> 01:04.000 economic sense attacking us? The spider, the web is actually something that we're 01:04.000 --> 01:08.480 all trapped in and what's interesting is that everyone is trapped in it. Not just 01:08.480 --> 01:13.520 us as individuals but governments. Most people think governments issue our money. 01:13.520 --> 01:18.000 If they issue money why are they in debt? They don't issue the money. It comes from 01:18.000 --> 01:23.400 a private banking cartel actually. But this goes to the fact that most 01:23.400 --> 01:27.720 Americans really don't understand American banking do they? No and in fact 01:27.720 --> 01:32.120 bankers themselves don't necessarily understand how they create money and 01:32.120 --> 01:35.840 they'll argue with you that they don't but they do. Now is this been is this a 01:35.840 --> 01:39.480 part of a deliberate ruse? You said that we've got a cruel hoax going. Is this 01:39.480 --> 01:43.560 part of that hoax? Is that it's been made deliberately complicated when it's 01:43.560 --> 01:49.320 really not? Certainly at some stage that would be true but I think now it's been 01:49.320 --> 01:55.880 so obscured in the thicket of misinformation. How is America's money made? 01:55.880 --> 02:01.160 Money that's made by the government is coins but that's only one ten thousandth 02:01.160 --> 02:05.640 of the money supply. One ten thousandth? Right it's like almost nothing. 02:05.640 --> 02:10.040 It's one billion dollars. The stuff I do in my pocket. Yeah the Constitution says 02:10.040 --> 02:14.640 Congress shall have the power to coin money and regulate the value thereof and 02:14.640 --> 02:19.880 that is all that Congress does the coins and all of the rest including the dollar 02:19.880 --> 02:26.680 bills which are what we also think of as money are issued by banks. The dollar 02:26.680 --> 02:31.920 bills are issued by the Federal Reserve but it is actually private. It's composed 02:31.920 --> 02:37.440 of 12 branches. If you look at your dollar bill you can tell which branch 02:37.440 --> 02:42.120 issued the bill so it's actually issued by the branches. All those branches are 02:42.120 --> 02:46.360 owned by the banks in their district only. The government does not own 02:46.360 --> 02:52.440 one share of one federal district. So before it was even popular we've been 02:52.440 --> 02:59.240 outsourcing our economic most essential function the money supplied to private 02:59.240 --> 03:03.680 interests. Exactly. Now this is a widely held misconception people don't know 03:03.680 --> 03:09.960 that basically banks just poof create money. Right well they created as credit 03:09.960 --> 03:14.720 in other words when you go to a bank to take out a loan the bank will write into 03:14.720 --> 03:18.280 your account the amount of money that you want but they don't pull that from 03:18.280 --> 03:22.400 anywhere. That's just the debit on one side of their books and a credit on the 03:22.400 --> 03:26.120 other. They do it by double entry bookkeeping. They only need the deposits 03:26.120 --> 03:31.360 when they go to clear the check and then as the check goes out you know they need 03:31.360 --> 03:35.760 to balance their books so they have to have as much going out as coming in but 03:35.760 --> 03:40.800 they don't really lend the deposit. They borrow from that deposit pool but the 03:40.800 --> 03:44.760 deposits are always there. If you the depositor go in to get your money 03:44.760 --> 03:50.200 the bank never says come back in 30 years because we just lent your money to 03:50.200 --> 03:55.040 Mr. Smith. It's been lent out and yet you have access to it. Now what you just 03:55.040 --> 03:59.920 described is lending this bringing money into creation poof out of thin air 03:59.920 --> 04:04.640 double entry accounting where there's an asset balancing a liability is the bulk 04:04.640 --> 04:10.480 of the American money supply. This is why people can have valuations on 04:10.480 --> 04:14.560 their homes but there's really not enough money to sustain all of that 04:14.560 --> 04:20.160 valuation is there. Right but actually it's good to have so much credit out 04:20.160 --> 04:23.880 there. I mean when the credit system collapses that's when we have a 04:23.880 --> 04:27.880 depression such as we have right now. What you described is indeed the 04:27.880 --> 04:32.960 fractional banking system. Is that correct? Right. And the unfortunate thing 04:32.960 --> 04:38.040 is that this could if not control lead to inflation. Really what inflation 04:38.040 --> 04:42.400 comes from when you create a loan and it's backed by a piece of real estate 04:42.400 --> 04:48.200 that that loan will get paid off so so that is not necessarily inflationary. 04:48.200 --> 04:52.840 What does inflate the system is when bankers speculate they're creating 04:52.840 --> 04:58.520 money that they're using for money making money. Becoming a casino a better machine as we've seen recently. 04:58.520 --> 05:06.880 How about the role of central banking? Was that done to protect the economy in some sense? 05:06.880 --> 05:13.800 In theory. What you have here is this basically a shell game going on by the 05:13.800 --> 05:18.120 bankers which is how money is created. It's not necessarily a bad system as I 05:18.120 --> 05:22.120 will argue. I mean if it were public it would be a good system but because it's 05:22.120 --> 05:28.440 private and there's this conception that money is a thing like gold the bankers 05:28.440 --> 05:35.520 never had enough gold to create all these loans so they had to fabricate. 05:35.520 --> 05:40.040 So there's a certain fraud involved. So to keep this fraud up to keep the 05:40.040 --> 05:46.760 ruse that the shell game going the central banks were set up which 05:46.760 --> 05:52.040 which had the function of printing money or creating money to backstop the 05:52.040 --> 05:55.960 banks but now they're sort of blocked from doing that as well like look at the EU. 05:55.960 --> 06:01.920 So seeing the problem of their own making they created a solution of their 06:01.920 --> 06:07.160 own making that allows the same problem to perpetuate which is the Fed which 06:07.160 --> 06:10.640 is in your book you mentioned that it's neither federal nor are there any 06:10.640 --> 06:15.880 reserves in the Federal Reserve so they create this entity that is as you're 06:15.880 --> 06:22.040 describing a shell game. We hit it for disaster I think so. 06:22.040 --> 06:27.800 Well there are ways out which and and I think we're kind of finding our way to 06:27.800 --> 06:31.760 those ways like you look at the EU that's an unsustainable system but they 06:31.760 --> 06:35.720 are starting to create money because that's what they have to do there has 06:35.720 --> 06:40.880 to be a release valve to allow this system to expand. Did Franklin Roosevelt 06:40.880 --> 06:47.880 take us off the gold standard because he was aware of what you just described? He 06:47.880 --> 06:53.680 took us off the gold standard because he had no choice at that time everyone was 06:53.680 --> 06:57.240 afraid of the banks so they were rushing to the banks to pull out their gold. Well 06:57.240 --> 07:04.760 the dollar was 40% backed by gold so you could take your dollars in if you took 07:04.760 --> 07:10.200 two dollars paper dollars in and took two dollars worth of gold out three 07:10.200 --> 07:14.480 dollars would have to be called in in the way of loans so it would the money 07:14.480 --> 07:17.920 supply was just contracting and contracting and so we had a huge depression 07:17.920 --> 07:24.120 so in order to stop this implosion of the money system he took the dollar off 07:24.120 --> 07:44.280 the gold standard. And that's not a solution for us either is it? Going back on a gold or a silver standard or any kind of commodity based standard? No it's never worked in the past despite what gold bugs will say. The Federal Reserve system is made up of private banks serving private interests. True although you could argue the Federal Reserve Board is a different 07:44.280 --> 07:48.680 thing than the Federal Reserve banks. The Federal Reserve branches are all a 07:48.680 --> 07:52.800 hundred percent private. The Federal Reserve Board is appointed by the 07:52.800 --> 07:58.360 President and confirmed by the Senate so it's definitely got a federal component 07:58.360 --> 08:06.520 to it. We know about Andy Jackson taking on the Second Bank of America and I 08:06.520 --> 08:13.320 believe the name Biddle was popular at that time opposing his effort. Biddle was the 08:13.320 --> 08:18.400 head of the second US bank which was quite corrupt. He said I will kill it 08:18.400 --> 08:23.000 before the bank kills me which he did. He did he killed the bank pulled all the 08:23.000 --> 08:28.920 money out that's the the last time that the debt has been fully paid off. Now we 08:28.920 --> 08:34.120 have Lincoln in the greenback can you describe that? That's another... Lincoln 08:34.120 --> 08:39.280 went back to the American system in other words. This is the system that was 08:39.280 --> 08:45.040 popularized by Ben Franklin. Yeah he wrote about it he didn't actually invent 08:45.040 --> 08:48.400 it but he wrote about it. It was actually the Quakers in Pennsylvania that 08:48.400 --> 08:56.040 developed the best of these models. Lincoln was faced with usurious interest 08:56.040 --> 09:02.040 rates in order to fund the Civil War and in fact there is some evidence that the 09:02.040 --> 09:08.960 the Rothschild bankers were that they actually stimulated this war in order to 09:08.960 --> 09:15.080 trap the colonies back in debt in order to have economic colonialism where they 09:15.080 --> 09:21.640 had lost their political colonies. So to avoid these very high interest 09:21.640 --> 09:29.000 rates he issued US notes or greenbacks and did manage to win the war and did a 09:29.000 --> 09:32.360 lot of development besides the railroads that went all the way across the 09:32.360 --> 09:37.080 countries is a very active period of development but he was assassinated and 09:37.080 --> 09:41.680 that whole thing was terminated. Private bankers reclaimed our American banking 09:41.680 --> 09:45.960 system. Now you mentioned Rothschild everybody knows that name and what's 09:45.960 --> 09:49.680 interesting in your book is that it was a shocker to me I didn't know that 09:49.680 --> 09:54.200 Rockefeller was so intimate in early American banking along with the 09:54.200 --> 09:59.600 House of Morgan and there's another name that people 09:59.600 --> 10:04.680 probably don't know Aldrich who was the grandfather of Nelson Rockefeller vice 10:04.680 --> 10:11.280 president under Jerry Ford a very powerful man wasn't it Aldrich who 10:11.280 --> 10:18.840 linked up with the Rothschilds? Aldrich brought the first Federal Reserve bill 10:18.840 --> 10:24.040 and it was called the Aldrich bill and he was a relative and Rockefeller and 10:24.040 --> 10:27.920 Morgan both were funded by the Rothschild I mean there is evidence that they were both 10:27.920 --> 10:33.000 funded by the Rothschild bankers so Rothschild of course was Jewish and at 10:33.000 --> 10:40.560 that time that was that impaired his ability to deal with so so Morgan was it 10:40.560 --> 10:47.400 was a good Protestant front for him. Influence by the Rothschild still 10:47.400 --> 10:54.540 continue in the American banking system? It's hard to know who the head of the 10:54.540 --> 11:01.040 spider is now it is said that the spider moved across the Atlantic to to the 11:01.040 --> 11:05.440 Rockefellers that the American banking system is now stronger than the City of 11:05.440 --> 11:08.920 London but I doubt it I mean I think that it all still goes back to the City 11:08.920 --> 11:13.240 of London. There is a need to expand the economy we certainly don't want it to 11:13.240 --> 11:18.600 implode by not having productive lending I guess that's the important term 11:18.600 --> 11:23.240 productive lending how would you describe a productive loan? Well my own 11:23.240 --> 11:28.200 solution to all this would be that the banks would be publicly owned so lending 11:28.200 --> 11:34.840 is a good thing and in fact all of our money comes from from loans virtually 11:34.840 --> 11:39.680 all of it and it is a very natural organic system in other words people 11:39.680 --> 11:42.760 take out loans when they want to do something build something or whatever 11:42.760 --> 11:47.680 and then they pay that as they pay the loan off the money supply contracts 11:47.680 --> 11:52.200 again so the money supply expands and contracts naturally in response to the 11:52.200 --> 11:55.400 need for credit so that's a good thing the only bad thing about the system is 11:55.400 --> 12:01.480 that it's privately owned by bankers pretending to have money they don't have 12:01.480 --> 12:06.440 so not only is that bad in the sense that it gives a certain cartel power 12:06.440 --> 12:10.560 over the whole money scheme but it's bad for the bankers themselves because 12:10.560 --> 12:14.280 they're always getting into trouble I mean historically this system goes back 12:14.280 --> 12:19.000 for a thousand years and they've in fact when it when they were really strict 12:19.000 --> 12:23.120 about in the Italian bankers there was one Italian banker who was actually 12:23.120 --> 12:28.840 beheaded in front of his bank because he couldn't balance his his books 12:28.840 --> 12:37.160 no no there's a role of interest interest could could be part of a sustainable 12:37.160 --> 12:41.240 system it's if it's a public system in fact there are many money reformers who 12:41.240 --> 12:46.200 will argue that that that the debt virus theory has been debunked and so their 12:46.200 --> 12:49.640 argument is well the bankers put the put the interest back into the system they 12:49.640 --> 12:54.000 they buy shoes and they buy food and they spend like everybody else they 12:54.000 --> 12:58.400 spend their profits but the problem is they don't it's the 1% versus the 99% 12:58.400 --> 13:02.960 thing they reinvest their profits they have far more money than they can spend 13:02.960 --> 13:08.500 and so not counting this issue this mathematical issue of you've got to have 13:08.500 --> 13:14.680 an expanding debt in order to pay the interest they put their money into 13:14.680 --> 13:20.560 investments so instead of saying here's my dollar give me some food they say 13:20.560 --> 13:24.240 here's my dollar give it back to me with interest or give it back to me with more 13:24.240 --> 13:29.920 profit it's not really just interest it's any form of rent here money making 13:29.920 --> 13:34.320 money that is this parasite that's pulling the money off the top and that's 13:34.320 --> 13:38.360 why the one person basis of the Ponzi scheme you talk about the fact that 13:38.360 --> 13:42.840 money money is created but only the principle is created not the interest 13:42.840 --> 13:49.560 for that principle that it's never created so it depends on further lending 13:49.560 --> 13:53.040 system where the government itself is able to print some money they can print 13:53.040 --> 13:57.120 the interest so they can put some debt-free money into the system to cover 13:57.120 --> 14:02.200 the interest but a bank can't because all their money goes out there as debt 14:02.200 --> 14:06.680 bearing I mean interest bearing debt well we know on the on the basis of 14:06.680 --> 14:12.120 households is clear but on the base basis of the national economy is it clear 14:12.120 --> 14:16.440 that we will reach time where we cannot service our debt the interest will 14:16.440 --> 14:21.240 prevent us from we can't even service the interest on the debt yeah well that 14:21.240 --> 14:25.320 would be true if we had like if we were still paying five percent interest like 14:25.320 --> 14:28.580 we did at one time we would already be at the point where we couldn't afford the 14:28.580 --> 14:32.720 interest but in fact that's why interest rates have been dropped so low they're 14:32.720 --> 14:37.560 down to like 0.2 percent at the for the Fed funds right there almost nothing and 14:37.560 --> 14:43.000 they have to hold them ridiculously low because the federal debt has grown by 14:43.000 --> 14:49.680 50% since this banking collapse but you could service the debt I mean if you 14:49.680 --> 14:53.920 borrowed from your own central bank interest-free then then it doesn't 14:53.920 --> 14:57.560 really matter the size of the debt you just keep rolling over the debt it's the 14:57.560 --> 15:00.920 interest that'll kill you so you're saying there's some artificiality that 15:00.920 --> 15:06.240 is holding or suppressing our interest keeping it at near zero levels so 15:06.240 --> 15:11.840 basically the government doesn't suffer a calamity yeah if you could have zero 15:11.840 --> 15:16.640 interest the government debt can respond to the needs of the of the economy which 15:16.640 --> 15:22.680 I think is not sustainable I mean is it are we basically just well zero interest 15:22.680 --> 15:28.600 means borrowing from the Fed and they return the money good point some of what 15:28.600 --> 15:35.640 we talked about deflation the fact that things are contracting we're not seeing 15:35.640 --> 15:39.880 lending we don't see the productive activity even though there is a need for 15:39.880 --> 15:43.880 it we don't see it in fact many people that are written in Forbes that have 15:43.880 --> 15:47.920 been on Charlie Rose there's a hedge fund multi-billionaire that's saying the 15:47.920 --> 15:52.160 future is a deflationary future and by deflation that's the opposite of 15:52.160 --> 15:56.640 inflation we know there's not much evidence of inflation today we're we are 15:56.640 --> 16:01.920 in a deflationary cycle there's there's this entire shadow banking system that 16:01.920 --> 16:07.840 goes unreported and that was the system that shrank in 2008 and according to the 16:07.840 --> 16:12.240 Fed's own figures it shrank by five trillion dollars shadow banking system 16:12.240 --> 16:19.320 what is it it's non-bank it's going on banks it was the Goldman Sachs until 16:19.320 --> 16:23.960 they until they became a bank but but it includes investment banks hedge funds 16:23.960 --> 16:29.820 money market funds this whole system supposedly it developed or one reason 16:29.820 --> 16:33.920 it's so big is that big institutional investors don't want to put their money 16:33.920 --> 16:37.760 in a bank because they're only insured for two hundred fifty thousand dollars 16:37.760 --> 16:41.760 and they have far more than that so they want something that's like a bank they 16:41.760 --> 16:47.040 want to be able to pull their money out daily so that's the whole repo market 16:47.040 --> 16:50.640 where it's like a big pawn shop where they say I'll give you money my money 16:50.640 --> 16:55.240 for a day and you give me those mortgage-backed securities and but I can 16:55.240 --> 16:57.800 give you back the mortgage-backed securities and you have to give me back 16:57.800 --> 17:02.120 my money tomorrow if I want it and that's what happened in 2008 that the 17:02.120 --> 17:06.160 money market collapsed all the investors panicked and they pulled their money out 17:06.160 --> 17:10.800 at once overnight so it's a very unstable system it shrank by five 17:10.800 --> 17:16.960 trillion suddenly and it's only come up by one trillion and if this continues 17:16.960 --> 17:23.400 again this is the paradox of thrift the liquidity crisis or the death spiral all 17:23.400 --> 17:32.160 under the rubric deflation right is there a way out of it inflate this is 17:32.160 --> 17:37.240 put a little put some money back into it for some lending is what yeah well I 17:37.240 --> 17:42.440 ideally I just wrote an article on student debt would be a very nice way to 17:42.440 --> 17:47.800 get another trillion dollar into the system there's a now a trillion dollars 17:47.800 --> 17:53.440 in student debt outstanding when the Federal Reserve did its quantitative 17:53.440 --> 17:58.560 easing one what they did was 1.3 trillion in mortgage-backed securities 17:58.560 --> 18:02.560 or toxic assets were bought off the books of the banks so the banks got the 18:02.560 --> 18:08.680 dollars and the Fed got the toxic at them at face value no actually they got 18:08.680 --> 18:12.160 a deal on it the Fed actually made money on that deal even though ever 18:12.160 --> 18:16.240 everybody said that isn't that going to contract the economy if you mark to 18:16.240 --> 18:22.000 market basically that means that the reserve limits or reserve requirements 18:22.000 --> 18:27.160 are met the lending amount that banks can make contracts the whole point they 18:27.160 --> 18:32.560 gave them dollars so so now they didn't have toxic assets on their books they 18:32.560 --> 18:35.440 now had dollars on their books so they could lend again theoretically it didn't 18:35.440 --> 18:41.600 work obviously and for another reason I think it's because it help America no 18:41.600 --> 18:46.760 finance their home program either but the Fed did it so they could just as 18:46.760 --> 18:52.760 well buy a trillion dollars in acid-backed securities backed by student 18:52.760 --> 18:56.880 loans and then just rip them up and there would be another trillion dollars 18:56.880 --> 19:00.640 in the system and the students would basically get free edge free higher 19:00.640 --> 19:04.280 education which I think we should have been given a line that's a hidden tax 19:04.280 --> 19:09.480 on the American public in no not if you're in a deflationary cycle if you 19:09.480 --> 19:14.000 used to have things worked really well when we had five trillion dollars more 19:14.000 --> 19:17.880 in the system and we suddenly took that five trillion dollars out we've got to 19:17.880 --> 19:21.000 put some more money back in there now the question is how to do it they tried 19:21.000 --> 19:24.000 doing it by putting it on the books of the banks and it didn't work because 19:24.000 --> 19:28.800 there it's still there's still 1.6 trillion in excess reserves sitting on 19:28.800 --> 19:32.200 the books of the Wall Street banks that not the local banks the local banks 19:32.200 --> 19:37.440 can't get it it's the Wall Street Bank so what if we gave a trillion dollars to 19:37.440 --> 19:43.400 the municipal governments or the states it would only take 200 billion to bail 19:43.400 --> 19:47.920 out the state all the states to balance the books of all the states or the 19:47.920 --> 19:51.880 students you have to borrow that money the way the system works today the 19:51.880 --> 19:55.360 present system we have to borrow that and pay the interest to private interest 19:55.360 --> 19:59.400 that's what the Treasury would have to do or the Congress but the Fed does not 19:59.400 --> 20:03.160 have to borrow they can just issue the money they have the power they have the 20:03.160 --> 20:07.720 fiat power to issue money and they're looking for it again I want to make the 20:07.720 --> 20:13.720 point here you say create money not create debt right okay we keep talking 20:13.720 --> 20:18.960 about they we refer to Fed who's doing this who are these shadow bankers who 20:18.960 --> 20:24.600 who controls us who owns it all well if you trace it back historically there were 20:24.600 --> 20:31.240 some key players that set this system up and and made it work the way it does but 20:31.240 --> 20:35.600 today people don't really understand the system they just they see an 20:35.600 --> 20:40.640 opportunity to make money I mean all those people on Wall Street are just 20:40.640 --> 20:44.960 think that this is a good way to make money and they drive yeah yeah and they 20:44.960 --> 20:49.360 just jump in and do it so they see a hole in the system and they go in and 20:49.360 --> 20:54.080 make money off it it's driven by greed but it's legal greed and everybody kind 20:54.080 --> 20:59.200 of looks up to these rich bankers but we could fix that yeah so we need to change 20:59.200 --> 21:06.520 the system yeah if you bumped off all the or if you put in jail all the guilty 21:06.520 --> 21:11.160 parties you wouldn't have fixed the system yeah and you can't put them in 21:11.160 --> 21:15.000 jail because it's not even illegal but if we made it illegal that would go a 21:15.000 --> 21:18.280 long ways towards fixing some of the yeah that's what you have to do is fix the 21:18.280 --> 21:22.880 system so it's it's it's this amalgam of opportunists which we'll call 21:22.880 --> 21:27.240 speculators these are people that are bad against weak currencies like George 21:27.240 --> 21:32.920 Soros did in one time what about the central bankers as a group well then 21:32.920 --> 21:36.880 Bernanke for instance was a professor of economics and just got appointed I 21:36.880 --> 21:42.600 don't see him as somebody who's scheming to pull off something now I could 21:42.600 --> 21:46.200 envision that there are people scheming at the Bank for International 21:46.200 --> 21:51.420 Settlements because they are pretty much broken one economy after another by 21:51.420 --> 21:57.240 imposing their rules I mean that the first and most people don't even know 21:57.240 --> 22:00.760 what the Bank of International Settlements no they were kept a low profile for a 22:00.760 --> 22:03.720 long time till they decided they wanted a bigger building and they built this 22:03.720 --> 22:09.180 boot you know the famous boot in Basel the Bilderbergers are clearly a day they 22:09.180 --> 22:17.800 meet once a year and they are can we get the membership there are infiltrators 22:17.800 --> 22:22.120 who report on it but it's not nothing's official on that but they see people 22:22.120 --> 22:26.760 going in and out are there Rothschilds that we can look to and say that you know 22:26.760 --> 22:32.600 they are the spider that crossed the Atlantic nobody really knows how much 22:32.600 --> 22:37.200 money they have or what they're up to but you couldn't really nail them to some 22:37.200 --> 22:44.280 extent aren't we really touching on a dicey issue here of class war the 99% 22:44.280 --> 22:49.280 versus the 1% yeah but so to me the solution would be to set up our own 22:49.280 --> 22:54.360 system I mean we can't really get them what we need to do is set up a model 22:54.360 --> 22:58.240 that works better set up a better mousetrap and then everybody will just 22:58.240 --> 23:02.000 gravitate to that one and then when we realize that the two big two fails are 23:02.000 --> 23:06.760 not too big to fail let them fail we have our own more functional system well 23:06.760 --> 23:10.220 that's interesting because I'd like to hear how you would solve the problem we 23:10.220 --> 23:15.080 know that there's a deflationary threat out there we need to get the system 23:15.080 --> 23:21.760 going and the social contract seems to be broken we see pensions under attack 23:21.760 --> 23:26.640 health guarantees health care guarantees under attack even Social Security 23:26.640 --> 23:33.560 Medicare is under attack because there is insufficient resources there for that 23:33.560 --> 23:41.840 didn't Greece just sell off an island could be they impose some austerity on 23:41.840 --> 23:46.160 our earth in the terms of taking the treasures those antiquities yeah and 23:46.160 --> 23:51.840 they're threatening to actually put in a military like a police force that will 23:51.840 --> 23:55.640 enforce this they're gonna take over those governments they've they've 23:55.640 --> 23:59.400 abandoned their sovereignty because of debt this could be America's future 23:59.400 --> 24:04.120 without some austerity program if we don't find a solution yeah well it would 24:04.120 --> 24:09.080 actually it would be stupidity on our part if we let it happen to us because 24:09.080 --> 24:12.960 we do have the power our federal our central bank has the power to issue 24:12.960 --> 24:18.800 money and it should be issuing money and lending it to the government but because 24:18.800 --> 24:23.720 we have this whole faction that's refusing to allow to the debt to expand 24:23.720 --> 24:29.160 we have an artificial austerity being imposed on ourselves that we don't need 24:29.160 --> 24:34.320 to impose because we can fix it so it would be good if the debt world the debt 24:34.320 --> 24:38.800 cap will remove and that we grew the economy through that exactly because 24:38.800 --> 24:42.360 you need a certain amount of money in the system all money comes from debt 24:42.360 --> 24:48.880 when private debt shrinks public debt has to expand to to fill up the the gap 24:48.880 --> 24:55.960 so you want the money supply to match the GDP so if you want the GDP to expand 24:55.960 --> 25:00.440 you have to expand the money doesn't everyone know that our debt will never 25:00.440 --> 25:05.480 be repaid and we're even faced with a problem now servicing the debt it's an 25:05.480 --> 25:09.120 interest on the debt rather yeah well it's a servicing that's the problem if 25:09.120 --> 25:12.960 you got rid of the interest and you just allowed the debt to expand as we 25:12.960 --> 25:16.840 forward we get rid of paying interest on debt and then we deal with the debt and 25:16.840 --> 25:21.160 the interest that we have now by growing the economy yeah what you could do 25:21.160 --> 25:24.680 ideally everybody thinks this would be inflationary but I would argue it's not 25:24.680 --> 25:31.520 is you could print or coin you could do this right now it's out changing any 25:31.520 --> 25:38.840 loss coin 14 1 trillion dollar coins put them in the Treasury's bank account with 25:38.840 --> 25:45.520 the Fed and just buy back all those bonds and rip them up so so all those 25:45.520 --> 25:51.000 all the current bond holders would now have dollars instead of all the bond is 25:51.000 --> 25:56.560 a federal bond is just an interest bearing account with the Fed and a 25:56.560 --> 26:00.280 dollar is a non interest bearing account so you'd get rid of the interest in that 26:00.280 --> 26:04.520 way so instead of borrowing we just fiat the money into creation I believe it was 26:04.520 --> 26:09.120 Thomas Edison that you quoted in your book that if we can create a dollar of 26:09.120 --> 26:13.480 the dollar bond we can create a dollar bill which is basically the argument 26:13.480 --> 26:19.560 that you're making right there what about the constitutional authority over 26:19.560 --> 26:25.200 the currency is the Constitution specific about where that prerogative 26:25.200 --> 26:30.680 lies well that itself is controversial and there are a lot of their cases going 26:30.680 --> 26:35.520 both ways it's been argued for 200 years but the Constitution says Congress 26:35.520 --> 26:39.840 shall have the power to coin money and regulate the value thereof now the 26:39.840 --> 26:46.480 argument the gold bug type say well that means that that just means that you can 26:46.480 --> 26:50.760 take your coins to the mint and Congress will put the stamp on it that that's 26:50.760 --> 26:55.600 what coining money means the other argument is that coins were the 26:55.600 --> 26:58.960 official money at that time and they didn't have checks and credit cards and 26:58.960 --> 27:02.280 all this stuff so what they meant was Congress shall have the power to create 27:02.280 --> 27:07.800 the money supply that you have to you have to read that into it to meet the 27:07.800 --> 27:14.920 current circumstances 200 years later debt into dollars which is what you 27:14.920 --> 27:20.200 recommend we can regulate all of this financial engineering we can take back 27:20.200 --> 27:26.520 our our money supply from private banking selfish interests which has been 27:26.520 --> 27:33.240 basically the root of the class war for the whole time of our Republic right 27:33.240 --> 27:37.560 Ellen I want to thank you for a very very enlightening and interesting talk 27:37.560 --> 27:41.400 on the economy there are many things I didn't know I have an MBA and I didn't 27:41.400 --> 27:45.480 know so many things about our economy well I've got full faith and credit and 27:45.480 --> 27:51.760 a lot of the really sensible down-to-earth and very simplified 27:51.760 --> 27:56.000 banking proposals that you made and again I want to thank you for being my 27:56.000 --> 28:14.840 guest in the moral politics it's been a pleasure thanks